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High Gun Ownership Rates Correlate to High Gun Deaths #thesearefacts #socialholiness

NAGR is a gun rights organization

The horrific gun massacre at the Washington Naval Yard has done farily little to reignite the gun control debate. This is not surprising, considering the state of the debate following things like #Aurora #Tuscon and #NewTown.

Those opposed to any sort of gun control are focusing on the wrong parts of the 2nd Amendment and the fact that media outlets identified the weapon incorrectly – missing the point again. Horrifically, and with continuing fatal consequences.

In the wake of the tragedy, The American Journal of Medicine has pushed ahead the publishing of a study about gun rates and gun deaths – and how high ownership rates directly correlate to high gun deaths.

The findings are unsurprising, but important.

Here's the most important excerpt:

“There was a significant correlation between guns per head per country and the rate of firearm-related deaths with Japan being on one end of the spectrum and the US being on the other. This argues against the notion of more guns translating into less crime. South Africa was the only outlier in that the observed firearms-related death rate was several times higher than expected from gun ownership.”

The only country which didn't line up with the results was South Africa. That's it.

Science proves it. Your common sense tells you it's true. Why can't we do anyting about this?

As a pastor, I feel it is my duty towards the Wesleyan idea of “Social Holiness” to speak out on this issue. The Christian cannot let this status quo remain. The Christian should be outspoken when common sense proves Biblical principles.

I hate people who bandy about terms that start with the word “biblical,” but this is actually true.

The goal of Christian involvement in this issue doens't have to be to support measures which remove all guns from the hand of civilians. However, each and every Christian should search their hearts for whether or not they should actually own one, let alone what they believe about the issue.

6 comments on “High Gun Ownership Rates Correlate to High Gun Deaths #thesearefacts #socialholiness

  1. lwk2431
    September 19, 2013 at 11:24 AM #

    “The only country which didn’t line up with the results wa South Africa. That’s it.”

    Did they include Russia? Don’t say “yes” unless you really know. Did they include Switzerland where many households have fully automatic assault rifles in them used by member of the Swiss militia.

    lwk

    • Chris Tiedeman
      September 19, 2013 at 11:42 AM #

      I’m not one of those vein and narcissistic toolbars that cannot ever admit when things are overlooked or skewed to make my point. So, I don’t know if the story included those supposed examples or not.

      What is clear – and overwhelmingly so (indisputably so) – is that the overwhelming preponderance of evidence suggests that countries with more guns per capita have more gun deaths per capita. These are the facts, and they are undisputed – by credible sources.

      This is the problem with logic like you’re using. You believe that the one or two exceptions to scientifically compiled and provable evidence means that the conclusion is all-wrong. I’d respectfully ask you to keep those irresponsible assumptions to yourself.

      If you have to, relegate them to the comment section of my blog. Nobody reads it anyway.

  2. lwk2431
    September 19, 2013 at 3:13 PM #

    “countries with more guns per capita have more gun deaths per capita.”

    That should be obvious. But the question you perhaps need to ask is do they have more/less homicides/suicides by _all_ means (not just guns). The U.K. pretty much banned firearms and self defense is not an acceptable reason to own a gun in the U.K. but they were named the most violent country in Europe by the UN not long ago.

    The U.K. has always had lower homicide rates than the U.S., but it is not getting better for them even with few guns. Russian has a higher homicide rate than the U.S. despite few guns in private hands. People in Switzerland often have machine guns in their homes but little problem with violence.

    You might want to check this out and check out if your preconceived ideas might not be as accurate as you imagine:

    WOULD BANNING FIREARMS REDUCE MURDER AND SUICIDE?
    A REVIEW OF INTERNATIONAL AND SOME DOMESTIC EVIDENCE
    DON B. KATES* AND GARY MAUSER**

    Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy

    http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

    lwk

  3. lwk2431
    September 19, 2013 at 3:59 PM #

    Saw this article and thought of you. Interesting read from U.K. newspaper in 2009:

    The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.
    By JAMES SLACK
    UPDATED: 18:14 EST, 2 July 2009

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

    • Chris Tiedeman
      September 19, 2013 at 6:12 PM #

      The only preconceived notions in this debate are:

      1) More guns is the answer

      2) “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun…blah, blah, blah.”

      The fact that you can find a few (literally, a few) outlier statistics cannot overcome the simple fact that more guns OVERWHELMINGLY correlates to more deaths (regardless of the nature). Again, you can have your own opinion, but not your own facts.

      The unreasonableness of this debate is staggering. One side says there should be common sense measures taken, and the other side just wants to hold up their 2nd amendment and make out with their Bushmaster.

      Gone unchecked – and even aided by the expiration of other common sense laws – the gun problem (and it is ALSO a gun problem, not only a people problem) in this country only gets worse. Another fact that is indisputable.

      I invite you to continue to state your case in my comment section, but I have nothing else to say to someone who refuses to be an honest arbiter.

      And, honestly, we’re not changing each other’s minds.

  4. lwk2431
    September 19, 2013 at 6:55 PM #

    “More guns is [not] the answer”

    I actually agree with you. The root problem is not guns, and the solution is not necessarily more guns.

    Yes, maybe until we figure out the root problems and how to solve them it might be a good idea to put guns in the hands of good people in schools to protect children. But you are right that won’t solve the root problem (but it might save the lives of some kids).

    “you can have your own opinion, but not your own facts.”

    Unfortunately what are “facts” and what are “opinions” are often perversely difficult to discern.

    “the other side just wants to hold up their 2nd amendment and make out with their Bushmaster.”

    Actually my AR-15 was made by Colt – the law enforcement model (and no, I am not a cop, but I have served my country when the issue rifle was the M16A1). Colt uses the 1-7 twist which I prefer over the Bushmaster offering with a slower twist.

    “the gun problem .. in this country only gets worse. Another fact that is indisputable.”

    Actually homicides today are approaching historic lows since they peaked in the 1990s. They are approaching levels not seen since the 1960s when I was in grade school.

    ” honestly, we’re not changing each other’s minds.”

    I can see that. Maybe I can plant a seed that will help you see the picture clearer in the future. That is why we hopefully have a long life so we can in our old age learn to appreciate the mistakes we made in youth. 🙂

    lwk

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